Art Of Value

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The Mindset for Creating Value with Dennis McIntee – 088

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The first step to pricing based on value is to believe you create value. Belief starts in your mind. My guest, Dennis McIntee, teaches managers and administrators to create a high-performance culture within their organization. The only way he can challenge his customers to reach higher is if he has a value mindset. Two requirements to achieving a value mindset are shutting down the internal voice that creates fear and maintaining an intense focus on serving the customer. In this episode, Dennis shares how he establishes and maintains a mindset that creates significant value for his customer.

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How Does the Customer See Value?

  • What is the most important thing you can share about pricing?
    • The value of the product or service is determined by the customer, not by you.
    • Go through an interview process to see what the customer really wants.
    • There is a cost for not getting what you want.
    • Look several months out to see what would have to happen to make the engagement great.
    • Ask a lot of questions to unearth value, as opposed to coming with a pre-determined notion of the customer's needs.
    • In a coaching engagement, start off by asking what would make the day a home run.
    • There is a gap between expectations and reality: the bigger the gap, the bigger the frustration.
    • If you do not clarify expectations, you will not do a good job of serving your customer.
    • You have to peel it like an onion, starting with “What do you want?”
    • Keep asking why it is important and what it would accomplish until you get through 5 layers.
    • The answer is inside the customer; your job is to help him get clarity on what he wants.
    • When the customer has clarity, you can help him form an action plan.
    • When the heart decides the destination, the mind begins to draw the map.
  • What have you learned about pricing in the last year?
    • This year has been an internal battle.
    • Believing in yourself and the value you provide is the first step.
    • As goes your self-image, so goes your value.
    • The fear never goes away; just step into it.
    • Ray Edwards told him that you feel the same fear at $5000 or $50,000.
    • If the fear goes away, you might be losing some self-awareness.
    • Expansion and growth are uncomfortable.
    • A relationship and a process are required to live at a higher level.
    • Be around people who are a little bigger than you are.
    • You are the average of the 5 people you hang out with the most.
    • Upgrade your relationships and friendships to be around people who see and dream bigger.

[clickToTweet tweet=”Value of the product/service is determined by the customer, not by you. #pricing #marketing” quote=”The value of the product or service is determined by the customer, not by you.”]

A Mindset of Confidence and Fear

  • How do you increase your confidence in the value you create?
    • Monitor and train your self-talk.
    • As a man thinks in his heart, so is he. – Proverbs 23:7
    • Your thinking is how you talk to yourself.
    • Live intentionally.
    • Practical Exercise: Set alarms throughout the day to check into whether your are dialed into these four states (or the four you choose):
      • Contentment
      • Confidence
      • Connection
      • Courageousness
  • How do you handle fear when quoting a “new” price?
    • Ask yourself what a confident person would do.
    • Put on those behaviors.
    • In learning to put on the behavior, it changes your mindset.
    • Doctors do not justify themselves; why should those in service professions?
    • A higher price attracts a higher level person, because of the higher perceived value.
    • A free workshop can attract people that are more difficult to deal with.
    • When you have skin in the game, you value the service more, and your thinking will change.
    • You do your best work for people who are paying you the best.
  • What is the challenge of using value pricing with public speaking?
    • It is much easier to define ROI with corporations than with associations.
    • When working with association event planners, the budget is the budget, done by committee, with little variance.
    • Providing options for the event planners to include books, products, and extra services, allows those event planners to pull money from other portions of the budget.
    • Very few people are offering those options, so it sets you apart.
      • If you have a product, you can offer it pre-sold.
      • You could provide bulk pricing for attendees.
    • Bundles are also a good option.
      • Offer a recording of the session as part of the price.
    • Be creative by asking questions of the event planner, from a viewpoint of service.
    • Determine what else can you do to bless the customer.
    • Service opens the door to people's hearts.
    • If you want to reach the heart with through offer, you have to figure out how to best serve them.

[clickToTweet tweet=”You do your best work for people who are paying you the best. #pricing #marketing” quote=”You do your best work for people who are paying you the best.”]

GPS (Goals, Passions, Struggles)

  • How do you use GPS (goals, passions, struggles) in a conversation?
    • Like a GPS, it tells you where you are and where you are going.
    • Goals are certain outcomes you want to see.
    • Passions are what you love.
    • Struggles are the constraints holding you back.
    • Determine how to insert yourself to become the answer to one of these areas and then money is never an issue.
    • Examples of questions to get at a customer's GPS:
      • What are some outcomes you are looking for this year?
      • What are some things that would make this year great?
      • What are some challenges that your industry has? (They will tell you about themselves, not the industry.)
    • The real goal is to create a safe place for dialogue with your customer.
    • You create safety by being authentic and sharing your transparency as early as possible.
  • What has being in a mastermind group meant to your business?
    • It has caused Dennis not to be comfortable.
    • He would live at the level of his comfort and not challenge himself.
    • Striving to live up to the level of the other group members is a sign of a good mastermind that has a high level of trust.
    • His pace is determined by the pace of the pack.
    • The concepts of value are put into practice because everyone must show up in a mindset to provide value.
    • It corresponds to customers because they can also reap more if they share value as well.
    • When you are authentic and transparent, you can receive the most value from others.
  • What is one of your best stories about creating value for a customer?
    • A keynote for a large healthcare company in Indianapolis was attended by about 30 administrators and 30 nursing directors.
    • Afterward, at dinner with the vice president, he shared the idea of leadership roundtables in different areas of the country for the company.
    • He provided more value and earned five times as much from leading the roundtables based on that conversation.

About Dennis McIntee

Dennis McIntee is a consultant in the medical and financial industries on creating company culture. He is also a speaker who teaches leaders how to develop high-performance teams. He is the author of The 8 Qualities of Drama Free Teams and a former international missionary.

The Value of Telling A Story with Michael Hudson – 081

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Michael Hudson is an idea junkie–he is educated far beyond his intelligence. He is a recovering college professor, which means he is a teacher at heart. He has consulted with over 3,000 businesses on strategy, culture and leadership, and has given over 8,000 public presentations, including keynotes.

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Shifting from Time to Value

  • What is the most important thing you can share about pricing?
    • It starts in your brain.
    • Most people assume that whenever you quote a price the customer will want a lower price.
    • Get in your head the value you bring and the price it is worth, and then you do not have to explain it.
    • Initially, he wondered how he could get people to pay him and spent a lot of time figuring out the justification for his price.
    • He changed his perspective to focus on value, rather than cost.
    • Use “investment” rather than “cost” when you discuss price with your customer.
    • Before his perspective change, he underpriced his services.
    • Think about the things that create additional value in the engagement to help develop the price.
  • What was your first exposure to value pricing?
    • A customer discussed a major project to build his culture and improve his leadership.
    • He wanted to know how he was going to get value if he invested in Michael's services.
    • Michael laid out the cost of the customer's current mistakes and helped him discover a 10X return on the investment.
    • No one had ever asked what the ROI would be on the investment.
    • If you are a technician who loves what you are doing, you can easily fall into the trap of undervaluing your services. (The E-Myth, by Michael Gerber.)
    • When you begin to focus on the objectives that you are trying to achieve, you begin to figure out how to save the customer money.
    • If you do not show your customer additional things beyond the price, you are doing the customer a disservice.
    • Get yourself out of trading time for dollars.
    • Once you stop thinking about dollars and start thinking about the impact, you realize you can create a lot of value in small periods of time.
    • Shift your perspective to what your contribution is to the company rather than how many days you are there.
    • A little nugget of information can produce most of the value from an engagement.
    • “I do not get paid for what I do; I get paid for what I know.”
    • “I get paid to show you how to implement what I know” is what truly creates an impact.
    • Recognize that your contribution that far exceeds the time involved.
    • If you have confidence in your ideas and mastery of your trade, you can create extraordinary value.
    • The best ideas will never go far if you cannot communicate them.

[clickToTweet tweet=”‘I get paid to show you how to implement what I know' is what truly creates an impact.” quote=”‘I get paid to show you how to implement what I know' is what truly creates an impact.”]

Storytelling Matters

  • What is your background as a public speaker?
    • It started with him being the scared kid, where he heard, “sit still and shut up” from his teachers.
    • He withdrew and became petrified to speak in front of others.
    • It changed when he watched a speaker in 2nd-3rd grade who told stories as he sat and listened, engrossed.
    • He learned that “storytelling mattered.”
    • His speaking philosophy is “tell them a story and then teach them a lesson.”
  • How do you create value for the audience, the host and yourself?
    • You have to believe that you can deliver in a way they have not heard or have not seen how they can apply it before.
    • Have the guts to focus, narrow and target on the specific objective.
    • The speakers who are effective have hundreds of things they can talk about, but they limit it to the 2-3 for that specific audience.
    • Practice. Rehearse in front of the mirror.
    • Get into the audience's head to figure out how the message can connect with them.
    • Only then, can you get the audience to where you want them to go.
    • You will impact the host after you impact the audience.
    • The host will see the light bulb moments, and they will understand that is why you were hired.
    • The lesson is about equipping the audience to go where you want them to go.
    • There needs to be a call to action in the lesson to get the audience to try it.
    • Your signature message comes from you and your experience.
    • It may not be the experience the audience has, but in your sharing, you bring your vulnerability.
    • Show where you faced a similar problem and how you solved it or how the audience can avoid what you did.
    • Jim Rohn, Zig Zigler, and Tony Robbins all share their personal stories and experiences that are used to set the stage and share their lessons.

[clickToTweet tweet=”Ask, ‘What are people going to do differently as a result of me being there?'” quote=”Ask, ‘What are people going to do differently as a result of me being there?'”]

Pricing for Public Speaking

  • What is the typical compensation model for speaking?
    • Industries tend to have ranges of standard fees.
    • Fees for a keynote vs. 1/2-day workshop vs. 1-day workshop vary all over the board.
    • It boils down to what are you bringing to the table and how will it affect the people in the room.
    • If you do not have personal stories to share, you are just a textbook speaking from the front of the room.
    • When you use stories, you connect authentically with the audience to show them how they can do it.
    • You equip them with something that becomes memorable and easy to share, giving the message a greater impact.
    • The greater the impact, the more value you will receive for delivering the message.
    • As a speaker, the value starts with you.
    • The take-home materials that you provide should enable the audience to implement your message.
    • Be sure to think through the whole process for the audience member, including what happens after.
    • Think about your pricing in the terms of what you teach someone to do and then do the math.
    • The math can change the perspective of the meeting planner.
    • The speaking message is more important than the delivery, but delivery still matter.
    • You should first ask, “What are people going to do differently as a result of me being there?”
    • Do the preparation for the result first.
    • Think about what stories you have to tell, based who the audience is, to connect with them.
  • What is one of your best stories about creating value for a customer?
    • Strategic planning is a nebulous idea for most.
    • It is hard to measure the value of strategic planning, as the result might be 5 years down the road.
    • He structured the process in a table:
      • The event itself
      • The event's time/date
      • The participants
      • What we will realize if we do it
    • The conversation was then changed in the mind of the customer.
    • He defined what the outcomes were and moved the conversation away from price.
    • Then, he offered options, based on the outcomes the organization would receive.
    • They chose the most expensive option.

About Michael Hudson

The Most Important Thing About Pricing Vol. 2

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Happy New Year! At start of each show I ask my expert guest the same question: What is the most important thing you can share about pricing? After 50 interviews in 2015, I have compiled their answers into Volume 2 of “The Most Important Thing About Pricing”.

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It's About the Customer

  • Ray Edwards – Set your price based on the value that your bring to your customer.
  • Brennan Dunn – It is not about you, it is about the customer.
  • Brian Casel – Keep the customer’s view of the value in mind.
  • Lee Cockerell – Price is all about value.
  • Ben Furfie – The goal of value pricing is to match the price with the customer’s perception of value.
  • Kai Davis – If value is greater than price, it will be a no-brainer for the customer.
  • Joni Newkirk – Lead with the customer; where does she perceive the value.
  • Michael Port – People buy to express their values.

Learning to Price

  • Josh Zweig – Pricing is a skill that is dynamic.
  • Matthew Burgess – Value pricing is a journey.
  • John Chisholm – Pricing is not perfect; it is an art.
  • Mark Stiving – Understand the decision your customer is making right before they buy: Which one? or Will I?
  • Kevin Mitchell – The best leveler to increase your profit is strong pricing knowledge and acumen.
  • Mark Wickersham – Pricing has absolutely nothing to do with costs.
  • Rags Srinivasan – There are no pricing problems; only segmentation problems.
  • Jason Coleman – There is no magic formula to price something.

Your View of Creating Value

  • Bob Burg – Unless your name is Walmart, do not make low price your value proposition.
  • Ed Gandia – Whatever idea you have about what something is worth, you are probably wrong.
  • Jonathan Stark – Just do it. If you bill by the hour, you are not pricing.
  • Jody Maberry – You are worth more than you think you are.
  • Kary Oberbrunner – Pricing is a reflection of self-image.
  • Mike Kim – You can probably charge higher than you think you are worth.
  • Chris Cerrone & Laci Urcioli – Know your value and the value you bring to your customer.
  • Tim Dietrich – It is never too late to give value pricing a try.
  • Jennifer Kinson – Talking about price does not have to be uncomfortable.

The Impact of Pricing

  • Jay Shepherd – Intentional pricing is better than accidental pricing.
  • Tim Williams – Stand your ground; protect your pricing integrity.
  • Steve Major – Pricing can change your business and your life.
  • Jason Cohen – Figure out how to deliver 10X the value, and then you have true pricing power.
  • Wes Higbee – Be deliberate about the type of customer relationship you want to have.
  • Donald Kelly – Price is the reward for the value the customer perceives.
  • David Wells – Pricing fundamentally changes the attitude for your team.
  • Josh Elledge – When customers reject standard pricing, there is an opportunity to innovate.

Using Value to Steal the Show with Michael Port – 063

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Michael Port is the author of six books and a New York Times best-selling author. The Boston Globe commented, “He is an uncommonly honest author.” He has been called a marketing guru by the Wall Street Journal and a sales guru by The Financial Times. His seventh book, Steal the Show, is due this fall.

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“Book Yourself Solid” Sales System

  • What is the most important thing you can share about pricing?
    • People buy to express their values.
    • If you look at the sum of what we purchase, you get a clear picture of who we are.
    • Your price is about the buyer, not you or your services.
    • It is about how the purchase of the product or service makes them feel about themselves.
    • It gives them an opportunity to express their values, what they want other people to recognize.
  •  What is the Book Yourself Solid sales system?
    • Book Yourself Solid outlines a simple sales system.
    • Marketing is not what gets you business; it just gets people aware of you.
    • What you do after someone becomes aware of you is what books the business.
    • Sales offers should be proportionate to the amount of trust you have earned.
    • If you have the sales conversation at the right time, it is easier to book business.
    • If you design your sales system properly, you will have no problem making the sale.
    • The 4-part sales system asks these questions:
      1. What does your customer want to achieve?
      2. Why does the customer want to achieve it?
      3. Does the customer want help to achieve the goal?
      4. Would you like me to help you, because you are my ideal customer?
  • If the customer finds you, should you assume they want your help?
    • There is an implication that they want you if they have sought you out.
    • However, it is a good idea to ask them to articulate and confirm it to avoid tire kickers.
    • You want to get an intentional yes from the customer.
    • If you focus on the customer, you do not have to prove that you can do the work.
    • Customers want to know what you stand for and what your philosophy to make a buying decision.
    • Control how you are known in the world.
  • In Part 3 are you asking, “Is this a problem you want to solve right now?”
    • Yes, and it is probably a concept with which people are more familiarity.
    • Having different ways to process information helps the audience understand it better.
    • Every person should use their own language to convey meaning.
    • Having structure gives you a process to follow, without needing a script.
    • Understand how the process works, and then determine how it works for the individual.
    • Being process-oriented helps you understand the big picture to fill in between the lines.
    • Understand how things work from a basic standpoint; then you can geek out on the details.

Improvisation As a Sales Skill

  • Why is improvisation an important sales skill?
    • If you sell something, things you do not expect are going to happen.
    • You need to be able to manage the situation, in the moment.
    • The structure allows you to improvise.
    • Improvisational comedy structure is based around the concept of “yes, and….”
    • Rehearse to prevent being nervous.
    • The better prepared you are, the easier it is to improvise.
    • You can be free and more authentic if you know the structure well.
    • It is a mistake to look too far ahead. Only one link of the chain of destiny can be handled at a time. – Winston Churchill
    • Build a strong chain, one link at a time. Then you can have a successful sales conversation.
    • Learn how to read what your customer is and is not saying to adapt your conversation.
    • The most effective salespeople have sophisticated social intelligence.
    • Social intelligence is a skill that you can learn.
  • What is the role of emotional and social IQ in sales?
    • Emotional IQ is being able to manage yourself and your feelings.
    • Social IQ is being able to manage other people‘s feelings in certain situations.
    • The way we show up tells the world something about us.
    • Be aware of how other people see you.
    • Salespeople can get too caught up in trying to make things happen.
    • Being self-aware is the first and most important ingredient in self-expression.
    • The sales process is artistic, not scientific.
    • You can measure what improves conversion online, but it is harder to do so face-to-face.

Learn From Your Pricing Mistakes

  • What is one of the biggest pricing mistakes you have made?
    • The biggest general mistake was believing that his customers bought based on price.
    • He doubled the price for 6 months as a test and had the exact same number of people sign up.
    • Another mistake was just following what other people did.
    • He offered 3 options for virtual training and figured everyone would go with the second choice because of framing (and they did).
    • They ran the program again and just increased all the prices except the most expensive.
    • Almost everyone went with the most expensive option the second time, even though the price was the same as before.
  • What is one of your best stories about creating value for a customer?
    • His master class on public speaking and performance attracts a wide range of people.
    • Every now and then, someone comes to feel more confident in themselves.
    • A female CPA, Lori, came to one of the events. She was meek, small and shy.
    • She just wanted to find her voice – not give speeches.
    • She walked to the front quietly with notecards and she started speaking.
    • He took away her notecards and he asked her to tell her story.
    • Her mother once slapped her and told her “no one wants to hear from you”. It stayed with her for 40 years.
    • Lori now helps others find their voices.

About Michael Port

Standardizing Value Through Products with Kai Davis – 058

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Kai Davis is an outreach consultant who focuses on building relationships and online community. He is also an e-commerce consultant who helps businesses increase their sales. Previously he was a front-end developer for WordPress and a jazz pianist. He is speaking in September at the Double Your Freelancing Conference.

Kai's Value Pricing Journey

  • What is the most important thing you can share about pricing?
    • Price is subjective to each customer.
    • When a customer is evaluating a purchase, they look at three things:
      • The value they perceive they will receive from the product/project.
      • The price.
      • The cost of doing business with a consultant or product creator.
    • If the customer's value gained is greater than price, it is a no-brainer for the customer to buy from you.
    • Focus on increasing the value and then you can increase the price.
    • The difference between the value and the price is the customer's profit.
    • Sometimes when you raise your price, you increase demand because the perceived value also increases.
    • By creating bundles, you can triple your price and provide more value to the customer.
  • What was your first exposure to value pricing?
    • Kai first learned of value pricing through Brennan Dunn's Double Your Freelancing Rate.
    • The idea of pricing on value was very new to him and a bit scary.
    • After talking through the obstacles, he decided to focus on just a few items and standardize them.
    • Ask yourself if you can standardize your offerings and price based on value?
    • Or, can you switch from an hourly or fixed rate, and price based on value?
    • He flips between the standard offerings and value pricing.
  • What was one of the biggest challenges while switching to value pricing?
    • The hardest part was that he did not internally believe that he was worth the price he was charging.
    • Think: “That is my hourly rate vs. That is the ROI we can create together.”
    • Talk through the ROI with the customer, rather than haggling over the price.
    • You can become an ally helping a customer improve their business, rather than a consultant who is simply a cost.
    • Another challenge was becoming familiar with interviewing a customer to understand the value that can be created.
    • Determining whether or not he wants to work with the customer is the prize, rather than the money being the prize.
    • Some customers are challenged when providing details about their business.
    • It requires developing courage to push through with potential customers.
    • Value pricing is more honorable because you are not trying to maximize the amount of time; instead, you are trying to minimize the value.
  • What have been the benefits to you from implementing value pricing?
    • Working with fewer customers
    • Working with better customers
    • Making more money
    • Being more respected
    • Customers are more loyal
    • His business is healthier
    • More positive relationship with his customers.
    • It allows you to focus on optimizing your relationships for multiple projects with your customers.

Creating Standardized Services

  • How did you create the first productized service for your business?
    • He looked at his offerings before and after his value pricing conversion, based on the audience and type of work he was doing.
    • Website X-Ray (SEO audit) for a business came first – fixed scope, flat-rate offering.
    • While not “value pricing”, it allows him to do a few things very well without having to write proposals.
    • RoadMapping workshops have also enabled his customers to purchase discovery more quickly.
    • As he improves on delivering the services, he gets a better hourly rate.
    • By standardizing the process, he can get a stream of customers who want that value for their businesses.
    • For RoadMapping, the customer needs to invest effort upfront on a questionnaire.
    • He then sets a boundary on their call time.
    • He gives them an idea of the length of the report, which is about 50% reusable (educational) and 50% customized to the customer (how to implement it for their business).
    • Any reusable intellectual property continues to deliver value to the customer; there is no shame in reusing it.
  • What should a consultant consider when creating a productized service?
    • The key problem to implement a RoadMapping session is that people believe they have to show up with solutions.
    • Instead, show up with a list of questions and allow the customer to talk most of the time.
    • You want the customer to believe that you asked a lot of great questions, like:
      • Where the customer is
      • Where he wants to be
      • Where he needs to be
      • What value is present now and in the future in the business
    • Go through a diagnostic procedure, rather than a prescriptive procedure. (Blair Enns episode.)
    • When you find the root and source of the customer's pain, you can start to identify value.
    • Do not talk to your customer; talk with them.
    • Asking great questions is like coaching the customer to a deeper level of understanding in his own business.
  • How did you create the three options for your Website X-Ray service?
    • The options were developed based on interviews with past customers and then feedback as they worked on projects.
    • He realized that there was a need for a scaled-down version of the initial service, so created Website X-Ray Express.
    • Small tweaks to each item allow for more value to customers.
    • Validate the amount of money that they customers are willing to pay.
    • You can then scale up or down to provide more services.
    • Access to the consultant is part of the value.

Writing Great Sales Copy

  • How did you learn to write your good sales copy?
    • The best method is to practice.
    • The first sales page was not that great, but it was revised over time.
    • He copied the experts(Ramit Sethi, Brennan Dunn, Nathan Barry) by hand to see how their copy was structured.
    • Practicing music is a metaphor for practicing writing.
    • The Brain Audit, by Sean D'Souza, taught him the importance of structure and framework in sales copy. Target these elements: Problem, Solution, Target profile, Audience, Objections, Frequently asked questions, Why you are unique, Risk reversal
    • Free bonus for AOV listeners at doubleyouraudience.com/aov:
      • 20-Page Guide on Value-Based Pricing Questions
      • Swipe File of Value-Based Phone and Email Scripts
      • Sample Value Based Proposals from Alan Weiss
  • What is one of your best stories about creating value for a customer?
    • A Roadmapping workshop helped a customer to sign-up four new customers, increased recurring revenue by 200% and signed a huge name in their industry to elevate their business in three days.
    • The customer was able to do that before the report was even provided to them.

About Kai Davis

Finding Your Sauce (and Value) with Cerrone & Urcioli – 055

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Chris Cerrone & Laci Urcioli are the hosts of the Chris Cerrone Show, a podcast with 1.8 million downloads across 136 episodes. They are also marketing and business consultants, who hail from Vegas. Chris is a former skateboarder, and Laci a former circus performer.

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Know Your Value

  • What is the most important thing you can share about pricing?
    • Know your value.
    • Your value has a direct effect on what you can charge.
    • Know your customer and audience.
    • For whom are you pricing your service?
    • What is the value you bring to end game of your customer?
    • Pricing appropriately is a key component to launching a business.
    • You do not want to underprice your ability.
    • Gut instinct is a key component in pricing.
    • What have I done in my past that I am really good at, that I am so confident in, that I can take anywhere and get the job done flawlessly?
    • If your skill set is hard to replace, it is the key to earning more money.
  • What have you learned about pricing since you started the Cerrone Show?
    • You have to ask a lot of questions.
    • Let your potential customer tell you what they have and need.
    • Create dynamic pricing to work within the budget of the customer.
    • Price based on value when you are offering a course.
    • Understand the price elasticity of the demographic you are targeting.
    • When is it “uncomfortable” for your customer to open his wallet?
    • Verizon is an example of a company who charges a premium price, while Cricket tailors to a different audience and charges less, despite running on the same equipment.
    • If you have to increase your resources to handle a project, you need to take that into consideration when pricing.
    • Price a product at a level that will help the most people and bring the most return to the business.

Pricing Challenges for the Cerrone Show

  • What is one of the biggest pricing challenges you have overcome?
    • There is an assumption that because they are a white-label boutique agency of only two people that customers think they should not be paid as much as a large agency.
    • They must overcome self-belief, but more so, the customer's perception.
    • Their service is priced based on what they will do for the business, not based on who they have to pay or what their overhead is.
    • If they are that efficient on how they operate their own business, imagine what they could do for the customer's business.
    • They come up with pricing strategies behind the scenes and have human conversations about it, which can include some self-doubt.
    • The choice that you make after having any self-doubting thoughts is what defines you.
  • Can you share an example of working through your pricing doubts?
    • Laci was underpricing her services because she was passionate about the customer's business and did not feel she was worth more.
    • She did not realize her customer would have been willing to pay five times that amount if she had just asked.
    • Once Chris got involved on with Laci and the customer for a larger project, they had to have very tough conversations with each other, about how to talk about the higher price with the customer.
    • They were able to negotiate a price with which they and the customer both were very happy.
    • Do not get discouraged if you do not get what you ask.
    • Laci said she did not know if they could get the price. Chris was very straightforward with her about the value of the difference they would be able to make.
    • Pricing requires conversation internally before presenting to a customer.
    • Get a pricing council – a peer, a spouse, someone who can talk with you about it.
  • Why is pricing so hard for the freelancer or solopreneur?
    • A lot of pricing has to do with confidence.
    • Get inspired to learn and move forward.
    • It is a “newbie” mindset, and they do not know what they do not know.
    • Stop wondering what everyone else is doing.
    • Build your confidence and reputation.
    • Take some risks and step out of the “vanilla”.
  • What pricing questions are your coaching customers asking you?
    • Chris & Laci questions are:
      • What do you do?
      • How do you do it?
      • Look for key indicators that set you apart from everyone else.
    • Questions their customers are asking:
      • Do you know what others are charging?
      • Should I go by hourly or a la carte?
    • Step back and look at the value you are bringing.
    • What are you the best at; what is your sauce?

How to Find Your Sauce

  • How easy (or hard) is it to discover the secret sauce with a customer?
    • Depending on the person, it can take three questions.
    • Sometimes what the person believes the “thing” is, is not the thing.
    • From an outsider's perspective, they can determine whether it is the sauce or the sausage.
    • What is the unique offering?
    • How do you position that offering?
    • Questions that they suggest you think about:
      • Why are you doing this?
      • What is the result?
      • What is everyone else doing?
      • How is your offering going to be different?
    • Once you discover the true meaning of why, you can create something amazing.
    • It is like The Dating Game – what sets you apart from the other guys vying for the girl?
  • What is the future for the Cerrone Show and your business?
    • The Cerrone Show has been on hiatus.
    • They needed to learn some new lessons to bring back to the audience in a healthy way.
    • The Cerrone Show was an interview-based show, and Laci brought a marketing perspective.
    • They were not as fulfilled as they initially were with the podcast.
    • Season 2 will launch at the end of August.
    • They are bringing a product to the market for podcasters.
    • There is a major gap in what is currently out there, that they had to figure out on their own: marketing and growing your audience.
    • YourFirst10KDownloads.com will be a new product.
    • The goal is to help people get to their goal and beyond.
  • What is the relevance of 10K downloads for a podcast?
    • Surveying the industry, the tipping point is at the 10,000 mark.
    • The 10,000 mark is a big perception gap.
  • What is one of your best stories about creating value for a customer?
    • The best/worst pricing stories from Vegas are the $.99 shrimp cocktail and real estate.
    •  A woman, who joined their group consulting, was supposed to get the standard package.
    • She got so much more – she got a sense of accomplishment.
    • Through the discovery questions, they “forced” her to become a writer and validated her dream.
    • She got a Kickstarter campaign funded for a book that is geared toward special needs children.
    • They believe she will be a best-selling author.

About Chris & Laci

The Role of Value in Sales with Donald Kelly – 053

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Donald Kelly is the host of The Sales Evangelist podcast and an award-winning speaker. His podcast has been mentioned in Entrepreneur Magazine, The Huffington Post and on Yahoo Finance. He's a sales trainer and mentor, and a self-admitted addict to staycations. Kirk was a guest on Episode 32 of The Sales Evangelist.

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Getting Started in Sales

  • What is the most important thing you can share about pricing?
    • Price is the reward for the value that people see.
    • People can be afraid of having a conversation about money.
    • Price is a demonstration of appreciation of perceived value.
    • Discussing price can be challenging to salespeople because they think the price is going to drive the customer away.
    • All customers know they have to pay for what they are going buy.
    • The fear is head trash, which limits the ability to talk about price.
    • If you do not have confidence in your product and service, you will be afraid to discuss price.
  • How did you discover your passion for sales as a profession?
    • When Donald was a kid, his dad had the entrepreneurial spirit and was successful.
    • Donald started selling cookies in the front yard or mangos he had picked.
    • When he came into professional selling, post-college, he had to learn how to sell in the B2B world.
    • Once he realized there was a process to follow, he decided to share it via The Sales Evangelist.
    • If you have the desire, he can teach you to sell.
    • The entrepreneurial spirit can be hereditary.
  • What is the most important thing to succeed in sales?
    • Episode 133 discussed the one thing necessary to succeed: having measurable goals.
    • The idea of the episode is to quantify your performance.
    • You need to be able to measure what you are doing by being methodical.
    • Key indicators is an important way to measure your performance.
    • Once a salesperson gets a taste of commission, they can sometimes get complacent.
    • Fundamentals of a sales process:
      • Understand your key indicators.
      • Generate interest.
      • The meat of the process is being able to ask appropriate questions of the customer to understand their problems and challenges.
      • You have to present the information with options.
      • Close the deal.
      • Exchange the value.
    • When you ask the appropriate questions, you might learn that the customer is not a fit.

Selling Value by Asking Questions

  • What are some of your favorite questions to ask in the sales process?
    • Why is this an important thing now?
    • What have you done to remedy this situation before?
    • What is your process like when you have made purchases like this before?
    • If you do not do something, what will be the effect on the organization?
    • Getting to the truth can sometimes be five layers down – keep asking why.
    • The goal is to get to the right decision for the specific customer.
    • You have to be able to probe, and make it feel like a comfortable, natural conversation.
    • Jeb Blount's book, People Buy You, is about selling on a human level.
  • Do you recommend always selling on value?
    • Value is in every sale.
    • Your product might make it harder or easier.
    • If you believe you are selling a commodity, you will act like you are.
    • If you think you are a premium, you will act like you have value to offer.
    • If you are confident in your value, it is important to articulate that.
    • Commodity thinking results in profit from volume only.
    • You can ask the customer what they think about your price. Then listen and learn what they believe about you.
    • When your customer comes to a conclusion on their own, rather than you telling them, it helps close the sale.
    • Ask your customer to give you their perception so that you can tailor your questions to them.
    • Every customer is unique and should be treated that way.
    • Practice, so that the questions become natural to you.

The Impact of Options in Sales

  • What is your experience offering options to customers?
    • People like to have options.
    • When the customer comes to an opt-in web page, they are familiar with three types of options.
    • A person who would buy Donald's lowest package still needs to get the same tools as the highest package.
    • With the options Donald offers, the amount of time that they spend with him is the main difference.
    • Do not make your customers feel stupid or that you are trying to trick them into something.
    • In more complex B2B sales, options are not always used.
    • You have to stay within the realm of what you offer when you provide options.
    • People like to choose.
    • Do not offer an option that is worthless to the customer or you.
    • How to Avoid Contract Hell was an episode about a software deal that was worth over $200K. The complexity of the negotiations required creativity to offer different options.
  • Which guest on your show did you learn the most from?
    • Kirk offered a lot of advice on Episode 32..
    • Justin Su'a (Episode 7) and Ralph Quintero (Episode 2) are about mindset and getting the habit of success.
    • Donald is the emcee for Podcast Movement and is bringing a suitcase full of costumes for his introductions.
  • What is one of your best stories about creating value for a customer?
    • A chiropractor's office in Miami did not have an IT staff.
    • Donald worked with a managed IT service.
    • The value for the doctor was to be able to provide service to his customers without distraction.
    • Donald explained how he could solve the IT issues remotely.
    • It felt good that he helped a doctor be able to heal others.

About Donald Kelly

Visual, Verbal and Value Identity with Mike Kim – 052

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Mike Kim is a marketing consultant that specializes in creating personal brands. He is also the chief marketing officer for an education company in New Jersey. He is the host of the Brand You! podcast, and a speaker at Podcast Movement this summer in Fort Worth, Texas.

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Positioning Yourself with Price

  • What is the most important thing you can share about pricing?
    • You can probably charge higher than you think you are worth.
    • The mental block is in your mind, not others'.
    • Charge a little bit beyond the price with which you are comfortable.
    • It will increase your confidence in the value you bring to people.
    • Price it normally, and increase it by 10-20%, and see what happens.
    • Especially for projects that you aren't that excited about, getting paid more can help you push forward better.
    • The more you hate the work, the more you should be compensated.
  • What is the relationship between branding and pricing?
    • It is about positioning.
    • The more something costs, the more value we assign to it.
    • You can be a premium brand or a bargain-basement brand.
    • Your approach will vary greatly, depending on the type.
    • If you are a premium brand, scarcity is your friend.
    • If you are bargain-basement, you have to be able to increase sales through volume.
    • As a service provider, you can't create volume.
    • Consider a four-quadrant graph:
      • Quadrant One would be high-paying, high-influence customers in the upper left.
      • High-influence, lower-paying customers, go Quadrant Two in the upper right.
      • Quadrant Three is lower left: High paying, low-influence customers.
      • Lower right is Quadrant Four with low-paying, low-influence customers.
      • You want to reach them via different mediums or offerings.
    • Do not do one of these quadrants at the expense of the other.
    • Use them all together to build your brand.
    • Create services for the quadrants and price accordingly.
    • If you focus on one quadrant at the expense of the others, you leave money on the table.
    • Copywriting is one of the easiest ways to generate income at a low cost.

Your Visual, Verbal, and Value Identity

  • What are the three identities that shape your brand?
    • Brands have a visual, verbal and value identity.
    • Good verbal identities are very intentional – Eat24 is a good example.
    • The visual identity is a website but includes the verbal aspect of it.
    • Apple is a good example of how the verbal backs up the visual.
    • All three of the identities have to work together to be cohesive.
    • Business owners struggle when they try to shape their brand by themselves.
    • It is very difficult to market yourself.
  • What was your first exposure to value pricing?
    • The first time that Mike read about consulting, it had value pricing woven into it – Getting Started in Consulting by Alan Weiss.
    • Mike did value pricing from Day One, except for hourly advice phone calls.
    • To help someone switch over from hourly billing to value pricing, create a line item on your invoice that justifies the “discount” you are providing.
    • Even your invoice is a marketing tool.
    • Include a price of $0 for something that you added in so that the customer understands the value you created.
  • What have you learned about pricing as a Chief Marketing Officer?
    • He created a position for himself at one of the highest salaries in the company based on value.
    • He is now working part-time, and his salary has remained the same.
    • He started his salary negotiations intentionally high.
    • If someone wants to negotiate down, you can determine what value (line item, deliverable, service, etc.)  you can remove from the deal.
    • Don't just accept the lower number.
    • It preserves the integrity of your value as a provider.
    • Prices have been raised every year, increasing income.
    • They market themselves as a premium, so the marketing, sales and prices all work together.
  • What have you learned about pricing as an entrepreneur?
    • For a large company, you would see a set price list.
    • As a service provider, every customer needs something different, and there is no price list.
    • Mike sets a price in terms of total budget.
    • He has a form on his website that shows his minimum and allows people choose their price range.
    • Requiring a potential customer to select an option allows you to know how to frame the conversation.

Non-Profit vs. For-Profit

  • What is the role of pricing for a non-profit organization?
    • Mike was formerly a pastor and worship leader.
    • Writing a Winning Support Letter is the e-book that Mike wrote.
    • Non-profits still have to raise and have money.
    • Mike doesn't discount for non-profit deals.
    • He knows the value he will bring and there is a dollar amount attached to that.
    • You can still charge a premium price to non-profits.
    • Don't be afraid to move your products to different quadrants over time.
    • Marketing should be the same whether you are a non-profit or a for-profit company.
    • A non-profit should have a value perspective for their customers as well.
    • Keeping the organization afloat or helping the end-user is often the priority for a non-profit.
    • Instead, it should be that you treat your donors well so you will have the financial capital to help the end-user.
    • Treat your donor like a customer.
    • It's always easier to keep a customer, rather than get new leads.
    • The same goes for donors.
  • What is one of your best stories about creating value for a customer?
    • An early marketing customer was a wedding photographer.
    • The young photographer, who had medical challenges with his son, was doing odd jobs to make ends meet.
    • “Because of what we did, I am fully booked for the next year with photography gigs, and I quit my other jobs and I can stay home with my son otherwise.”
    • Mike helped change his customer's life and his family's life.

About Mike Kim

Clarity, Competence and Confidence with Kary Oberbrunner – 045

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Kary Oberbrunner left his day job to pursue his dream job. From that experience, he wrote his sixth book, Day Job to Dream Job. Because he has written six books, he now coaches authors through a program called Author Academy Elite. His next event, Escaping Shawshank, will be in August 2015 with Dan Miller.

The Three Cs

  • What is the most important thing you can share about pricing?
    • Pricing is a reflection of self-image.
    • You will never outperform your self-image.
    • You will never outprice your self-image.
    • If you see yourself as a “2”, you will not be comfortable charging higher prices.
    • Self-image is like a thermostat.
    • You will self-sabotage because you are not comfortable charging higher prices.
  • What is clarity, the first “C”?
    • Clarity is essential.
    • Clarity knows where you are going, what you value and represent.
    • Clarity is the accurate vision of yourself and your business.
    • Most customers want to see if you have clarity before they are willing to invest in you.
    • A customer wants to trust where you will take him.
    • Clarity is the outward reflection of the inner value.
    • Confidence comes when the external reflects the internal.
    • “What makes you think you are the next American Idol?” – Simon Cowell
    • Income follows as a result of clarity, competence, confidence, influence and impact – in that order.
  • What are competence and confidence (second and third Cs)?
    • Competence is the skill set that you achieve and bring to the relationship.
    • If you are competent, you have a mastery of a skill set.
    • If you have clarity and competence, you can still lack confidence.
    • False humility is when you lack confidence.
    • People will not buy if you do not have confidence.
    • Drive-through drill:
      • Think about yourself as a drive-through restaurant.
      • Someone asks what you serve.
      • You must quickly answer because confusion repels and clarity attracts.
      • Have a VPS (value proposition statement) ready.
      • As an example, Kary “ignites souls“.
    • After you have clarity, competence and confidence, you can gain influence, impact and then income.
    • Most people do not know what they can give others because they are too good at it.
    • When you share what is in your cup, you can have influence and make an impact.
  • What is the relationship between the three Cs?
    • On the return from a conference, Kary boarded a plane and sat next to a woman.
    • He focused on a project as he had a deadline.
    • The woman engaged him later in the flight, and they discussed writing books.
    • He asked how she was stuck, and he worked with her for the last hour of the trip.
    • Kary helped flesh out her book and did not charge her or sell her.
    • She thanked him and asked for his card.
    • She emailed him and at that point he offered to take the coaching to the next level.
    • She sent him $5000 without being invoiced or priced.
    • Jimmy Dean Sausage Strategy – give people a taste and work from an abundance perspective.

Taking Action

  • Why is the language we use important?
    • “The early bird gets the worm” is a story of scarcity.
    • There are a lot of worms out there.
    • You can share your wisdom in a collaborative way.
    • Thanking someone for their time is a poor use of language.
    • The result is worthwhile, not the time.
  • What is a one-sheet and how do you create one?
    • Take action; it will never be perfect.
    • As you act, clarity will come.
    • Questions to ask to create a one-sheet:
      • Who is the market?
      • What are you offering?
      • When? – Do not say TBA or “coming”. That is confusion.
      • Where?
      • Why?
      • How much? How will it happen?
    • Create just enough information to ask people to lean in and ask for more.
    • Have the discipline and ethics to follow through.
  • What are the types of guarantees?
    • Limited Time Guarantee (like Best Buy) – You can get a refund, but it needs to be quick. There are several rules to follow to get it.
    • Extended Guarantee (like Lowes or Home Depot) – Buy the appliance and see if you like it. If, after 90 days, you do not like it, they will come and pick it up.
    • Risk Reversal Guarantee (like Zappos) – Buy the shoes and wear them for a year in your house. If you do not like them, they will take them back.
    • Bad hires cost a company three times their annual salary, so Zappos offers a Risk Reversal Guarantee for employee training.

Market Before You Manufacture

  • What does it mean to “market before you manufacture”?
    • It is a philosophy, a mindset.
    • It is the minimal viable product (MVP).
    • In a content-creation space, you do not need to spend a lot of money to manufacture and then market.
    • A movie trailer sells to you before they manufacture.
    • A one-sheet is the vehicle to get your best thinking on paper before you manufacture.
    • When you get your first sale, someone says, “I believe in you.”
    • Sometimes, the first sale is to yourself.
    • Simon's question is a mirror. The new question, “Are you the next American Idol?” is not the same.
  • What is one of your best stories about creating value for a customer?
    • Early in his career, Kary left a comfortable job.
    • There was financial pressure when he went out on his own.
    • He met with a customer and listened.
    • He returned with a proposal and explained why it would help and what it would hurt if he did not act now.
    • He dated the proposal – always use an expiration date.
    • He took massive action to deliver outstanding value.

About Kary Oberbrunner

Coaching: Pricing An Online Course with Caleb Simonyi-Gindele – 037

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Caleb Simonyi-Gindele is a registered clinical counselor from Canada who helps couples build thriving, passionate marriages. He and Kirk are in a mastermind group together. Caleb requested assistance with pricing his online marriage course. They decided to record the coaching session for the Art of Value Show.

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Discovering Value

  • What is the current situation?
    • Diakon Leadership offers counseling and coaching for marriages.
    • Caleb's remote location limits the number of in-person sessions.
    • He launched the Only You Forever website and podcast to offer virtual sessions.
    • He is also developing an online course.
  • What are the goals for creating the online course?
    • Most couples live through 7 years of marital distress before they seek help.
    • Caleb wants to reach couples sooner to enrich and strengthen their marriages.
  • How long does it take for a marriage to deteriorate?
    • The average time is several years of distress.
    • Counseling can be expensive and is not always successful.
  • How can you reach couples before their marriage is in distress?
    • Caleb is targeting the millennial generation.
    • Millennials have seen divorce first-hand and want to avoid it.
    • They can be proactive to prevent future pain for their children.
    • However, people are more driven to relieve pain than prevent it.
  • How do you want to offer the course?
    • Online videos, 8-12 minutes each, with a workbook.
    • Watch one video per week and complete the exercises.
    • The modules in theworkbook are:
      • Framework – What is happening with yourself and your spouse
      • Core Skills – Communication
      • Best & Worst Practices – What to watch out for
  • What is your inspiration for designing the course?
    • There was a pilot program in the Fall 2014 but it was too intense.
    • Content has been carved into smaller pieces.
  • What is your financial goal for the course launch?
    • $10,000 is the goal for the first week.
  • How do you plan to launch the course?
    • Email list, podcast and Facebook ads will drive people to a free webinar

Creating Options

  • What could you do to create a third option?
    • Studies show that three is the right number of choices.
    • “How I work with you?” instead of “Will I work with you?”
    • Three choices increase the opportunity for a “yes”.
    • Membership site is a possible option.
    • Another approach is to offer three options:
      • Videos only
      • Videos plus email support
      • Videos, email and coaching
    • Videos only offer value if a couple is less distressed in their marriage.
    • Offer the chance to upgrade after the initial purchase.
  • Would group coaching make sense for the course?
    • It could be an option, but would make some couples nervous.
    • There could be a huge range of distress from couple to couple.
    • Survey the existing audience to get feedback.
  • What are other ideas you have to create options?
    • Surprise gift – 2 coffee mugs with communication tips.
    • Create a way to measure how each couple is doing.
    • Additional material to increase the value of highest option.
    • Email campaign describing Caleb and Linda's marriage experience.
  • Could you use a “drip” model for the course material?
    • Release one module at a time vs. all at once.
    • By releasing in stages, it sets the expectation that it is a process.
    • Prevents couples from binge watching.
    • Name the options to communicate value.
  • Can you change the length of the one-on-one sessions?
    • Consider how many to sell and what the time commitment is.
    • Limit the number that is available.

Setting A Price

  • What are your ideas for pricing each option?
    • Determine how many of each option/price to sell to reach your financial goal.
    • Caleb decided to increase his initial price after listening to the Art of Value Show.
    • The lowest price will anchor the other two options.
    • Staggering the range between $100-$1,000 is a good plan.
    • The highest option could be double the price of the middle option.
    • Always create more value than the price you are charging.
    • Brainstorm using a pricing matrix with minimum, reserve and windfall prices for each option.

About Caleb Simonyi-Gindele